Nov 14, 2025; St. Louis, Missouri, USA; Philadelphia Flyers right wing Garnet Hathaway (19) checks St. Louis Blues right wing Jordan Kyrou (25) during the second period at Enterprise Center. Mandatory Credit: Jeff Curry-Imagn Images
Usually, when talking about hockey, discussing the fourth line, it's deployment and it's effectiveness is not high on the priority list.
As an example, two weeks ago, the Flyers had four home games and we did our usual Snow the Goalie podcast at Chickie's & Pete's on one of the off nights.
That's five days during the week where we were discussing Flyers hockey, and other than my partner Russ Joy mentioning Nikita Grebenkin once - and only from the perspective of development - there was no time spent discussing the fourth line.
For the Flyers this season, it has mostly consisted of four guys - Grebenkin, Garnet Hathaway, Rodrigo Abols, and Nic Deslauriers.
Jett Luchanko was here for a few games and split time with Abols before being sent back to Guelph in the OHL. And Jacob Gaucher filled in for one game for Sean Couturier who missed a game after taking a shot to the ribs.
Otherwise, they've been the guys - Abols and Hathaway consistently in the lineup and Deslauriers and Grebenkin mostly taking turns as the last guy in the lineup or being a healthy scratch.
Most nights, these guys aren't seeing a ton of ice time. They are all averaging less than 10 minutes a game. Hathaway gets the most ice time, because he's also part of the penalty kill rotation. Only Grebenkin has registered a point (1 goal, two assists). Hathaway has played the most minutes of any forward in the NHL without having registered a point. The foursome are a combined minus-16 when they are on the ice, and have the worst puck possession numbers of any forwards on the team.
Usually, this doesn't matter all that much. Maybe it's because in previous seasons, the expectations for the team weren't that high. Whoever was plugging along on that line was mostly inconsequential.
Sure, they'd occasionally bring a good, energetic shift. Maybe they'd start banging some bodies around and get the team's juices flowing. Maybe they'd drop the gloves and lift the spirits with a fight. And every once in a blue moon, they'd put points on the scoresheet. Otherwise, they have been mostly out of sight, and largely out of mind.
But things are different this season.
Now, with the Flyers believing they can make it into the playoff field, there's more of an onus of a need to provide more from the fourth line.
Additionally, with the schedule being condensed because of the Olympics in February - and the Flyers having just experienced it for the second time this season with three games in four nights - it's becoming apparent that the team's hockey operations need to consider an upgrade on this unit.
Before we look at the trickiness of it, let's look back at the two times so far they've played 3-in-4 nights.
At the end of October and beginning of November, the Flyers beat Nashville 4-1 on a Thursday night before looking bad against Toronto in a 5-2 loss on Saturday and then playing their worst game of the season in a 2-1 loss to Calgary on Sunday - a Flames team that has the worst record in the NHL this season.
This week, they came off a 2-1 overtime loss to Edmonton on Wednesday, pulled out a wild, 6-5 shootout win in St. Louis on Friday, before being steamrolled by Dallas 5-1 on Saturday.
All told, being 2-3-1 in those six games isn't awful, but what is a noticeable trend from both is concerning - the Flyers look slow and gassed by the third game. They shouldn't be. They are the fourth-youngest team in the NHL, so they should have reserve fuel that most other teams do not.
And yet, they don't.
It's a troubling trend in back-to-back games, especially. It dates back to last season, but the Flyers are now 1-12-2 on the second game of back-to-backs since October, 2024. In those games they've been outscored 63-34.
It's truly a matter of having the will. Coach Rick Tocchet told reporters after the game in Dallas that it's not structural. It's not systematic. It's competing.
"It's got nothing to do with system," Tocchet said. "It's one-on-one. It's two-on-two. Win your battles. No system stuff there."
He went on to say that it's going to be a key focus in practice this week as the team is off until Thursday their longest stretch of days off this season, outside the league mandated breaks for all teams around Christmas and the Olympics.
"We've got some practice time here and we're going to have to really work on some two-on-two and three-on-three battles," he said. "I think it's going to be the majority of the four days (off)."
Part of the problem with the teams playing such a condensed schedule is ice time. Tocchet knows he can't overburden his top three lines and top two defensive pairs - which means the fourth line and the third defensive pair are going to have to play more.
They did in Dallas, for example. Hathaway skated 13:01. Grebenkin had 12:24 of ice time. Abols was the lowest at 11:14.
It sure didn't help.
Much like I said yesterday in the article about Sam Ersson, if the Flyers truly want to be a playoff team this season, they need a fourth line they can rely on with more frequency.
That's not to say the guys who are here now can't be a part of it. They can. Just maybe not together.
The Flyers have to start thinking about other possibilities of changing their mix.
Tocchet wants to use four lines. He's a believer that the fourth line doesn't just have to be an energy line. He believes in the fourth line being effective - which is why we've heard him say repeatedly he has to find ways to get the line more minutes.
Rick Tocchet: we gotta find a way to get Grebenkin more minutes pic.twitter.com/KCM3X8tcwX
But part of his reluctance, to this point, has to be rooted in the lack of effectiveness in the guys that are there when they are together.
How they can change that mix up is the question. Because it's not an easy solution, and it may take some time to finally get there.
But Tocchet is seeing the schedule that lies ahead - and I'm sure G.M. Danny Briere sees it too. Beginning Thursday, the Flyers have 18 games in 34 days leading up to the aforementioned Christmas break. Only once in that stretch do they have more than one day off in a row. There are three more instances of three-games in four days, which include back-to-backs and travel between each of those back-to-back games.
And those back ends of those back-to-backs are all on the road against good teams - New Jersey, Carolina, and the surprising Chicago Blackhawks.
As such, Tocchet would like to have a more reliable fourth line for this stretch - and beyond.
Some of that reliability can come from within.
Alex Bump, who many, including yours truly, thought was going to make the team to start the season, but didn't because he didn't have a great camp, has been playing very well for the Phantoms. He leads the team in scoring with 13 points in 14 games.
He would be the first guy the Flyers would want to bring into the mix. I'm hearing they may be ready to give him a look, but they don't want him stuck playing on the fourth line. The Flyers brass believes when Bump comes up, he has to play in the top nine.
Getting him to do that is going to be tricky - but it's doable.
The Flyers may have to convince Sean Couturier to move back to a fourth line center role, but a hybridized one that still allows him to get quality minutes.
If the ultimate goal is to roll four lines, he'll automatically get more than the nine minutes, or so, that the fourth line has been averaging this season.
The hybridization would include taking shifts where there are key faceoffs with other lines in place of guys less-skilled at those draws.
Couturier would still kill penalties and be on one of the two power play units, so he would still get his regular ice time.
Doing that, the Flyers would have to move Trevor Zegras back to center on a regular basis, and not the hybrid role where he's predominantly a wing, as he's been playing with great success so far this season.
If they do that, a spot on the wing in the top nine can open up for Bump.
Another guy that has played well for the Phantoms is Denver Barkey, who has 10 points in 14 games. The Flyers aren't itching as much to get him to the NHL as soon as possible, as they think he still needs more time in the AHL, but he's another possibility at some point that can come up and give the Flyers quality minutes, although there's not as much of a push to get him into the top-9 as Bump.
Could you see a fourth line eventually this season where it's Couturier centering Barkey and either Grebenkin or Hathaway? You'd certainly have more confidence in that group have some effectiveness, right?
I know what you're thinking though ... How does this work with the current roster? Wouldn't guys have to get waived or traded?
Yes. But not necessarily forwards.
Let me explain.
First, the Flyers are carrying eight defensemen. And while that's better for the purposes of practice, it's not always ideal for roster construction.
So, if the Flyers want to recall Bump first, they can waive a defenseman - either Egor Zamula or Adam Ginning.
Ginning would probably be first as there's a better chance of him clearing waivers than Zamula, and the Flyers see Zamula as their current No. 7 and Ginning as their No. 8.
There's a non-zero chance either or both would be claimed if exposed to waivers, which is one of the reasons the Flyers have been hesitant to do so to this point.
But, with the defensive picture close to being altered, it's likely safe to take that gamble soon.
That's because it wouldn't be surprising if at some point this week there are reports being tweeted out from the Flyers Training Center that Rasmus Ristolainen is on the ice practicing.
His return isn't necessarily imminent, but he's getting closer and I'm told he will begin ramping up. I keep thinking we are about two weeks out from Ristolainen getting some action, assuming all goes well in practice.
Once Ristolainen comes back, and once the Flyers are ready to give Barkey - or another forward like Karsen Dorwart - a look, they could waive the other of Zamula or Ginning. They may not have to, as an injury elsewhere could preempt such a plan - which is why teams always kick these things down the road as far as they can before they absolutely have to make a decision.
Another option at that time would be waiving Abols, but it might make sense to not risk losing him and keep him as an extra forward as he can fill in both as a center and on the wing in case of injury.
Rick Tocchet said that Nikita Grebenkin may return tonight. Some banged up players are game time decisions. To stay in the lineup, Grebenkin needs to grasp some of the positional parts of the system, according to Tocchet.
Grebenkin, who is waiver exempt, could also be sent down. As much as people like him, he still has some limitations, and could benefit from more playing time to try to push through them, but the Flyers are also reluctant to send him to the AHL because they don't want him to become disenfranchised.
It's all a delicate tight rope walk for Briere at the moment, but one that he is likely starting to realize he's going to have to traverse to help his team have a chance to gain that much-needed playoff experience next spring.
